Manuel Ramirez, 37 [Updated]

No need for rioting people. This is what happens when you charge at an LAPD officer, with a knife in your hand! This area is infested with Mara Salvatrucha gangsters. Most of them look like day laborers. Though in most cases I side with the citizen on officer involved shootings, I have to go with the boys in blue on this one.

I don't knoiw what part of Mexico he was from, but in the U.S if you charge a police officer with a weapon,you normally lose.why protest if you don't like the laws,please go back.

He shouldn't have been in this country anyway...they people in the area called the police...they needed help with that that fool with the knife.....I really doubt that the officers want to go out killing people...they want to put a dent in crime and go home ...... I would deport everybody in tha riot that was an illegal alien...let's try goin to any country south of our country to charge at cops with knives and get killed and let americans protest and riot.......ohh that won't happen to us americans cause we would have been deported or shot dead for protesting their police force

im a hispanic girl and people need to get off their high horse and "discrimination" issues. what did you expect to happen if someone charged a officer with a knife? he was stupid enough to do it...officers arent going to risk getting stabbed just to avoid shooting. what the hell was he doing with the knife anyways. time to face the consequences. stop defending the trash of the world. the cops didnt come on their own. they were called because he had shown the knife already. ignorant ass people.

I agree with all the comments you guys said but my question is .."is that all those officers were taught to do?" couldnt they have shot the man in the leg or somewhere so they it wouldn't kill him and then take him to jail...

enough- Don't be an idiot. Do a little more research, and you'd find out he's from Guatemala. Not everyone with a Spanish surname is from Mexico, Einstein.

Wow, the cops kill again and we already know that it will be considered justified. Are cops now trained killers? How many more black or browns have to die b4 we say to hell with to protect and serve? That slogan is straight bullsh_t!

_Meck i dnt understand what u saying u should come here where all this is happening and do your research this area is not infested with MARA SALVATRUCHA GANSTERS u are such a ignorant this gang is more down from where this happening. am not a cop lover but they over react most of the time i do understand that people are over reacting burning messing up the streets, and beating innocent people

MECK and Lame you both are right, "enogh" is a BIG IDIOTA that thinks all the hispanics here come from Mexico lol. The true is that there are people from all over "central AMERICA, south AMERICA". Do you know what part of the "AMERICAS" Mexico belongs to ?...."NORTH AMERICA" lol... I quesss that the officers wanted to avoid doing all that paper work lol.... so soorry for the death of HUMAN... A PERSON...legaly here or not... whats hispanic girl problem ??? ashammed to be one ( I mean a hispanic, latina or what ever!).

Thanks Meck for your comment. Enough- dont assume that because he has a spanish last name that he is from Mexico. That is just plain stupid and that comment just shows how ignorant people are. This is just a sad story for everyone involved. People should know by now that if you have any type of weapon in sight, police officers will have to do whatever it takes to protect themselves. Some of their actions will always be questionable but if you were in the same situation, where your life can be threatened, what would you do?

It would be nice to see this much concern from the community when gangs are involved in killings.

LAME: This isn't a video game , this is real life. Even getting shot in the leg or arm could be fatal, and now taser's are killing people so..... bottom line , DO NOT CHARGE OFFICERS WITH A WEAPON WEAKER THAN A GUN, YOU WILL LOSE.

Sad that the thugs are what end up in the news! People have the right to disagree via protest. After all someone did die, drunk idiot or not. Real tragedy is how people allow the thugs in their streets to use these rallies to assault police while hiding behind "the unjust brutality blanket crap". Like that helps the cause?

By now we should all know that all brown are not all Mexican. Confirmed reports say drunkie was from Guatemala (different country) and did not speak English nor Spanish (some dialect instead. No excuse, a pointed gun by a uniformed cop is a universal silent request that goes w out saying!

SALUD!

Thanks for posting.

I agree with lame one shot to the leg would of kept him down, their bad judgement can happen to any race.. duh

Apperantly you all missed this sentence, "Chou said Jaminez may have lunged at the officers". So did the homeless person charged at the cops with a knife? It doesn't sound like he did.

"According to coroner's records, Jaminez died from multiple gunshot wounds to the head" Cops no longer aim at the torso anymore, they go for the head. Homeless or not, it is a life taken away by incompetent cops.

I'm sorry, i actually witnessed the event. The man was drunk as hell arguing with another day laborer. He was insulting people but he always just passes out under a tree. The rumor has it a fellow day laborer stole some sort of property. He became agitated and simply started cursing at people. The cops shot the guy like 5 times in the head. There were skull fragments near his head and the blood on the knife was HIS blood, he had the knife in his pocket. He lunged at the cops with his fist, the fear of the knife rumor made the first white cop shoot. Then the other two joined in sick domino effect. The guy was going to fight the cops bare fist, they shot him 5 times. Blood was gushing out his head with each pump of blood. No need to talk to cops, they twist your words and protect their own just to collect your tax dollars and pension money. Sick. That guy was short, no threat and the cops ran up screaming with their guns out in a busy street with NO care for the children or pedestrians. I felt the alpha male chain reaction of events. In skid row this is a daily event. Even crazier all the cops HAD tasers. All the shots were head shots. Those cops didn't aim center mass, ALL were direct dome shots. I seen it, work at food 4 less. I will be giving testimony soon to Univision. The guy never stabbed nobody.

Shoot him in the leg? You people watch to much TV.

Hispanic girl I love u lol. This isn't hollywood. you don't aim for a skinny moving leg. if the cop misses he either gets stabbed or accidentally shoots an innocent bystander , then these fools would have a real reason to riot.
Shoot to kill or be killed.

Shooting people in the leg is Hollywood stuff. In real life that is a very difficult shot to make. Whether in the military or law enforcement you are trainied to go for center mass...means the chest. It is the easiest shot to make and you reduce the risk of missing, which prevents someone innocent from being shot.

To Montana Gold, if what you are saying is the truth. You should go to a news outlet. What is been said by Police Chief Charlie Beck is that all three officers involved were Latinos and only one was the one who shot at him. Again, if you were a true witness to do this, speak up. Hold a news conference, do something! Otherwise, you are just talking for the sake of getting some attention.

— Montana Gold-, then why do all the witnesses that have come forward at the hour of the shooting, all say he had a knife in his hands?

Why is your account different?

Complain like this when the other 8 people this week will get shot and kill this week in la county...the police was right on this doing what we all pay them to do...protect the public the guy was a drunk waving a knife..he had it comming to him once the plice was involved...shooting for the leg? Yes only in movies... he is dead he should have been deported in the first place

Montana Gold's account of this incident is a perfect example of how much a story changes by the time it is reported in the news. Thank you Montana Gold for your post. I'm sorry that you had to experience that. RIP Manuel Jaminez

Syscom3 and Tom, shooting someone in the legs is harder than shooting someone in the head? I tend to believe if you can shoot someone in the head you should be able to shoot in the legs. Montana Gold, I don't doubt your statement at all. Unfortunately, these incompetent cops will end up getting away with murder. I happened to be driving by the scene today and the media was there and interesting enough there were more cops than protestors. Talk about intimidating the public so no one can protest about the injustice of killer cops.

Syscom3,
How did you get access to the witnesses statements? I'm just curious.

Montana Gold is full of BS. Yeah, the guys everywhere...seen it all every time...please... All you cop haters are as transparent as a plastic bag. Have you EVER thought a police shooting was warranted...EVER? Better yet, have you even CONSIDERED a police shooting COULD be warranted? Based on the simple minded crap you post, I'd say no.

— Paul 619 ...

La Times story:

"Earlier today, Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck offered a detailed account of the shooting. ....... said initial accounts from witnesses and the officers involved indicate that the officer who fired acted “in immediate defense of life.”

Police said Jamines refused commands to drop his weapon when he was shot."

I believe the chief of police rather than Montana_gold who may, or may not have been there.

Thank you Syscom3 for clarifying what I thought. You were just going on Mr. Beck's "initial accounts", not actual witness statements.

First of all let me say, let Manuel Jaminez rest peacefully in the arms of the lord. Now...
I just heard about this on the news and decided to look up a new report on it. I decided to read the comments and it disgusts me how many people are blaming this on racism. The cops will have to give proof that people approached them about the man having a knife. He probably did. The people on t.v. are complaining that the cops didn't speak to him in Spanish. I'd assume that it is common knowledge that when three cops stop to yell at you, that you should stop what you're doing wether you understand what's going on or not. It's especially a bad idea to lunge at the cops, fists or not. This is why deaths like this happen. People need to put themselves in these cops shoes. They're working on bikes in a very dangerous area. They're told that there is a drunk hispanic man threatening people with a knife. Manuel could have had any number of other weapons that the cops could not see. They would feel that "me or him" ultimatum. It's unfortunate that these cops killed this man. I'm sure they feel guilty. Men and women become cops because they care about criminal justice, and they're just that, men and women. Nobody is perfect.

I hope it's obvious to everyone by now that Montana Gold is bald-faced lying. Nearly everything he says has been contradicted by the ongoing investigation. And what a gigantic coincidence that a fairly regular poster here on HR was a witness to this incident. That's just plain crap. Come-on, now Montana Gold, just fess up.

Like Rodney said...Can we all just get along? LOL

Blowing someone's head in public is acceptable by all you cop supporters? Based on many comments, shooting someone in the leg is impossible, but shooting someone in the head is not? The cop who shot this man is known by the community as pelon, baldy, and he's known to harras many street vendors who are trying to make a living. The community has many complaints against this cop, but of course, nothing was done about it and he ended up taking someone's life away.

— Paul 619, The chief of police is making his comments from witness accounts from the scene. As he is incommand of the LAPD, he does get the privledge of looking at preliminary staements.

Theres always the possibility things can change, but I doubt it.

On the other hand, Montana_gold is making some comments in which he never (claimed in his post) told to the police right then and there. And his account is contradictory for what a lot of people have said.

hey im just wondering. why isnt it mentioned that he got shot twice in the head? 40 seconds is a pretty good amount of time to aim for the body to prevent his head. but then at the same time. cops are iditos.

People don't understand how dangerous a person with knife can be. An attacker can travel 21ft in 1.5 seconds, now you tell me if that's enough time to shoot him in the leg or maybe put your gun away then pull out your taser. Or better yet tell him over and over "please put the knife down".

Anything under 21 feet is considered to be in the zone of "imminent danger of death or great bodily harm."

In other words the attacker with the knife was a direct and imminent threat to the officers and their lives were in danger.

I feel the LAPD officer's did their jobs and eliminated the threat plus they saved a pregnant woman from getting attacked

Doe's getting shot twice in the head as opposed to twice in the heart make any difference?

If the deceased was lunging at he police, then its always possible his head went into the line of fire for the chest.

Syscom3,
You can't blame me for being skeptical considering this is the same area that 80 police officers were indicted as part of the Rampart scandal.

There is a main artery in the lower extremity. He can still die. Go to school.

Police officer in question has an A-hole reputation for citing vendors/taking what they are selling. In other words for doing his job! YES HIS JOB, cops are to give citations and even take merchandise. Some choose to give breaks some don't! (I know my patience would run thin quick if that was my filthy daily office!) If my crap got tossed I would think they were a pain, BUT would rather deal w cops than gangbanging punks, charging rent like they own the streets!

This is more about people not understanding basic law or ordinances, paying taxes is the least of their concern when they have to sell crap in the streets to feed a family. A lot of these rants are not logical just emotional. BTW my source shared, some of the Oakland “activist” were also there “protesting” which explains a lot!

Thanks for posting!

— Paul 619 .... "You can't blame me for being skeptical considering this is the same area that 80 police officers were indicted as part of the Rampart scandal."

Its approx 70 officers not 80. It took place a decade ago. Only 6 officers were terminated.

Time for you to move on.

BTW, most of the offensives were against gangsters. Illegal, but understandable considering the poor old gangsters were getting the same treatment they dish out to others.

Sycom3,
"Illegal but understandable considering the poor old gangsters were getting the same treatment they dish out to others"

This shows how biased you really are! The reason there were so few convictions is because the police chief Bernard Parks was also the head of the Internal Affairs at the time! He suppressed the investigations to avoid any further social unrest following the LA Riots and OJ trial. You should try doing more research than just googling Rampart Scandal and posting a few lame statistics.

Its a little way over the top how these idiots are Sopousedly mad at the lapd and outraged at this unjustice. because the police shot a drunken violent person with a knife that was threatening and terrorising people with kids on the street. Im amased how they do this for a drunken idiot but when the new born was shot on by gangmembers nothing happen no outraged or nothing why? They are just mad that the lapd does not let them sell things on the street so the gang members are mad because they dont get to collect taxes from the vendors the lapd should not be tolerating this they should just call ICE and put them on the corner and lets see how many of those idiots are still out there throwing bottles and rocks at the police.

I cannot believe all of the stupid comments made.First of all... hispanic girl... ur an idiot. Its obious u hav nothing intelligent goin on in ur head. u shud b ashamed n dont say anything if u don`t know what ur talking about. None of us wer there so we cant realy say what happen.What we know is directly from the media but it is upsetting that this man was killed when there wer other ways to avoid his death n the anger in the community. I`m a student of law, proud latina, n daughter of guatemalans n i`m angry at the actions of these officers. Law enforcement officers better than anyone shud know that deadly force is the last resort.I respect the law n what it stands for but actions like these make it hard not to get pissed off n want to lash out. Even though i respect what it stands for ... i fight for what i belive is right n i wiil defend those that cannot defend themslfs, i stand by my people. We need to stop the hate and discrimination.For all you ignorant people who asume we r all from Mexico n we shud go back...shut the f... up!! U ignorant a..holes !!! You never in ur life wud b able to handle all the bs that we go throu n wud never take the kind of jobs immigrants take to put food on the table. Until you walk a day in their shoes keep ur idiotic comments to urself.

stop the violence.

Manuel Jaminez rest in peace. Unfortunately, nobody had a camcorder or cell phone rolling during the incident. Meaning that the LAPD will say what ever and protect their own. But, if someone out there has the incident on tape you must be defecating bricks, thinking of wether or not releasing the tape.

— kitty1, if you're a "student of law", then you had better improve your grammar and spelling. No judge is going to accept that level of writing.

"You never in ur life wud b able to handle all the bs that we go throu n wud never take the kind of jobs immigrants take to put food on the table.".

Ever consider what us taxpayers are going through in paying for the high costs of huge numbers of illegal immigrants?

"Law enforcement officers better than anyone shud know that deadly force is the last resort."

Yes they do, and that's why they shot him. A sober person with a weapon is dangerous enough. A drunk one is even more dangerous.

"We need to stop the hate and discrimination."

Playing the race card are you?

— yabasta ..... "be defecating bricks, thinking of wether or not releasing the tape. "

You watch to many movies.

— Paul 619 ..... There was an extensive internal affairs investigation, a California grand jury investigation AND prosecutions, as well as a federal Grand Jury investigation with charges filed.

What else did they miss?

BTW, isn't it amazing that many of the claims leveled out by Rafael Perez were later to have been proven to be false and he was lying about them?

Syscom3,
Obviously they missed quite a bit.

BTW, Isn't it amazing that the same officer who killed Manuel is being investigated for excessive force in another incident? Coincidence? I think not.

— Paul 619, no it isn't unusual at all. The officers patrol a violent neighborhood and its inevitable they run into lots of violent people.

The officers probably see more violent criminals in a week, than some entire departments see in a year

Anything else you need cleared up with?

Syscom3, before you criticize someone else's spelling and grammar, please proofread your own posts. To wit, you made the following errors in your post:
1. Change: law", to law,"
2. Change: "us taxpayers" to "we taxpayers"
3. Change: "to many movies" to "too many movies"

I've corrected your spelling and grammar before, but my comment wasn't published. Apparently such criticisms of you aren't permitted.

Hmmmm Shoot him in the leg while he's charging you - how dumb and lame is that. If I were a cop I would also go for a head shot if I could simply for fear of bullet proof vest but more so to drop the assailent immediately before he plunged a knife in my chest or cut my throat. If the police were using 9 mm weapons - they don't have much stopping power under certain conditions like a raging angry lunatic charging officers with weapons drawn.

What happen here is what the lapd is trained and paid for. They are here to protect us this shooting could have been avoided if the guy would have droped the knife and thats it what would you do if a drunk person charged you with a knife in his hand? If you had a gun? would you shoot him in his leg? would you try to take the knife away? What would you do i know what i would have done to defend myself and my family and kids. What would you have done?

He had a knife, wouldn't put it down, so he got shot and killed. Simple as that. What the hell are people protesting??

A Los Angeles Police officer with more than one incident of having to use lethal force does not sound unreasonable considering all the gang related murders happening in LA every week. Some areas of LA are more akin to war zones than a habitable city.

A ready made protest against a police officer killing an armed, grown man, but absolute SILENCE at a gang murdered 14 year old girl named Dominique Peatry (Sept 5th), fifteen year old Miguel Machuca (Aug. 28th), sixteen year old Juan Fuentes (Aug. 25th), sixteen year old Ruben Galvan (Aug 10)... and the list of YOUR CHILDREN go on and on and on... and your response? Silence.

But go ahead and protest the cops while your beloved gangs butcher your children.

Syscom3,
You've proved my point once again. You said "it's not unusual at all". Your absolutely right! It's not unusual for cops to encounter violent people with which deadly force is the only option. It's also not unusual for corrupt cops to abuse their power. It's not unusual for police to be trigger happy. It's not unusual for their to be social unrest following these types of situations. None of this is unusual, however you always choose sides with the police, wrong or right. This shows that your biased and ignorant!

@ Ken and sc9011.....I agree with you guys fully. EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS. For those that disagree with police shooting tactics, let me put some things into perspective so you ALL understand why so many police shootings are fatal.

It is REQUIRED that when having to use a firearm as a police officer (in Los Angeles anyway) you aim for the torso (highly likely to result in death).

Case and point, a close relative of mine is a retired LAPD veteran as of last year. In the 80's when PCP was huge, my relative received a call for of a man wielding a knife and making threats. He was out of his mind on PCP. When my relative arrived on the scene, the man charged with the knife.

After multiple orders to drop the knife, the man continues. My relative immediately thought "shoot to stop....not to kill." So he lets one off to the man's leg. Being so high on PCP, the man did not feel it and continued charging. Another one to the other leg and the man finally goes down. Everything is fine, everyone is safe....right?

Well, approx. 15 years later, the case was re-opened by former Chief Parks, and it was ruled that my relative used improper tactics by shooting in the legs and not the torso. Because of these life saving "improper tactics" he was put on a 3 month suspension without pay.

It is the rule to shoot in the chest. My relative tried to be a decent human being and lost 3 months pay for it. So don't say "why not shoot in the leg?" and blame the officer. The officer has no choice without penalty.

Realist, for living in a civilized society I think is time the rules are changed. Do you or Syscom3 happen to know how many people killed by cops were high in PCP within the last decade? I believe the number is not significant enough for police to continue to aim to kill.

Yes, the officer in question was under investigation for shooting an innocent bystander. He was shooting at a suspect, when the victim decided to check what was going on (outside his home) and got in front of him! End result shot in thigh. They are not disputing what occurred.. but mainly how much money he should get based on what if any SOP were not followed properly!

Jag-

Right...because ONLY people on PCP are capable of brushing off a shot to the leg and continue advancing/threatening/attacking. Get a clue.

— Paul 619

So in your world, the police are not supposed to be armed, are to not bother with violent people, are to run away at the first moment of danger?

I prefer my world where the community supports the police and where we all live in a quiet community, versus yours.

I'm from the Midwest but make a point to see how life is going for people in other parts of the country via newspapers from different areas. I noticed once again that, sadly, many young men and women, VERY young, are being shot. Where is the outrage for those deaths? I'm not trying to diminish this fellows death or the circumstances. But, fortunately, I don't live in a city where 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 & 20 year old kids are shooting each other. I've NEVER heard of a protest against the gangs that infest your neighborhoods. Why not? How you put up with that kind of crap all the time is beyond my understanding. Doesn't anyone care that the youth are killing each other? I know it's a different lifestyle, but that's the point!

I just don't get it, I guess.

Ya Paul619: Your one of those I guess. If the police didn't even show up - or came 2-3 hours later and this armed subject stabbed and hurt or killed somebody, would we be having this convo? It's a lose - lose no matter what for justice.

Syscom3,
Twisting around what I post and putting words in my mouth doesn't help your credibility. With all due respect it would be counterproductive for me to respond to you any further regarding this homicide.

How many more incidents like this will happen before ALL police interactions with the public are recorded by video and audio?

Public safety includes protection from excessive police force.

Love how this clown has like 5 different names. I dont care what language you speak. You hold a knife up to anyone that is pointing a gun at you, damn right youre gonna get shot.

— John Tinker, that's a great idea. And it works both ways.

No longer will certain activists be able to scream "police brutality" when the video shows otherwise.

Rest In Peace Manuel